logs archiveBotHelp.net / Freenode / #2f30 / 2015 / July / 17 / 16
kori
FRIGN: same difference
FRIGN
https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/FAQ#Why_no_strlcpy_.2BAC8_strlcat.3F
k0ga
Evil_Bob: are you going to fix the buffer overflow in cpp.c:218?
FRIGN
These guys are just braindead twats who can suck my swollen di*k and get their asses cut open with a razor blade
k0ga
(I can do it, but if you want you are free of doing it)
Evil_Bob
k0ga: you change it please :)
FRIGN: the reasoning on that page doesnt make sense
FRIGN: it is better to buffer overflow than silent data truncation? wtf
FRIGN
Evil_Bob: especially if we are talking about dynamic input
like, you can look at your code for 100 years and still get an overflow
if you have dynamic lenghts
I think it's a political thing
Evil_Bob
"and does not prevent all buffer overruns in the destinations." ofcourse it doesnt if you:
FRIGN
I think these GNU glibc guys are like leftists, who refuse to work with us right-wing-guys (OpenBSD, suckless, 2f30)
Evil_Bob
strlcpy(&buffer[2], sizeof(buffer), "gunther")
FRIGN
^^
I like to think of CS as a political matter
FSF, all this gender crap, Ubuntu and so on are left wing
then we have the regulated ones (like Phoronix, ...)
but we are radical right-wing
Evil_Bob
FRIGN: the projects that seem too political seem to suck the most
FRIGN
yes
Evil_Bob
just shut up and code :)
FRIGN
Evil_Bob: We right wing guys don't need to write essays on some bullsh*t topic.
We just let the code speak
That's how I see it
The political message of suckless is conveyed through the design itself, and that's the beauty of it.
Evil_Bob
not sure what my political position is, probably random :P
FRIGN
The left-wing CS-stuff needs to hide its lies behind big essays and convoluted code.
Evil_Bob
i can identify with both left and right wing
some stuff
FRIGN
Evil_Bob: Is it coincidence we are a bunch of racists, national socialists and anti-EUrocrats :)
k0ga
FRIGN: The sentence that I said ("This is horribly ...") was what Ulrich Drepper said in 2000 when he rejected the patch for glibc with strlcat and friends
FRIGN
k0ga: can you link?
Evil_Bob: ?
kori
I know this guy, real smart guy
k0ga
https://lwn.net/Articles/612244/
kori
who thinks suckless sucks not because of the quality of the code
FRIGN
Ulrich Drepper can get in line. He's a faggot
kori
no, to him, the code is great
Evil_Bob
Ulrich Drepper also said static linking was bad...
k0ga
The full thread is very instructive
Evil_Bob
he is the suckless anti-christ
kori
but because suckless puts no effort in developing the UX of their programs
I can relate to this guy but I don't care enough to complain and I don't know enough to fix this
Evil_Bob
kori: wtf are you talking about
kori
Evil_Bob: a different perspective on suckless, that's all
I mean, you guys are the devs
what are the usual reactions to suckless?
"oh, I can't use it, this sucks"
or
"holy sh*t suckless makes the best software ever"
Evil_Bob
kori: stop trolling
FRIGN
kori: shut up dude
Evil_Bob
if you really mean it then you miss the whole point of suckless to begin with
kori
what I'm trying to say is, suckless is very WEIRD
Evil_Bob
you're WEIRD
kori
the software is nice in my opinion, I use it, I like it, and so on and so on
but there's this weird entry barrier that exists and doesn't exist at the same time
Evil_Bob
there is a barrier, because a person needs to be willing to learn
kori
yeah
FRIGN
kori: If you want to use a tool, you need to learn how to use it
kori
I'm going to cherry pick this specific phrase from the manifesto
or
philosophy
rather
whoops
> We believe this should become the mainstream philosophy in the IT sector.
FRIGN
if you start using a tool and don't need to learn how to use it, then this tool is weak
kori
let me make sure, do you all still believe that 100%?
FRIGN
kori: sure
kori
otherwise this whole discussion doesn't need to happen
Evil_Bob
i dont agree with that whole manifesto
particulary the SLOC thing
kori
yes sloc is a dumb measurement of complexity
FRIGN
kori: dude, troll otherwise. If you don't like it, then just go to #ubuntu or sth. They welcome guys like you who don't put much value in their computing
Evil_Bob: Sloc is more like a heuristic
kori
FRIGN: I ain't trolling
Evil_Bob
yeah
kori
if I come off as troll-y, I apologize
FRIGN
Evil_Bob: It only works if you also enforce a brain-dead C-dialect. So if you have low LOC, it doesn't mean you squashed the code together in some way
kori
and no, I actually enjoy suckless software a lot
FRIGN
kori: yeah, so what's the problem?
if an idea is ingenious, you don't need much force to propose it.
kori
there's not enough info as to why suckless IS good
FRIGN
and the number of users of suckless software has grown and grown
kori
FRIGN: I agree 100%, but the thing is, there's no force at all
FRIGN
no force needed
Evil_Bob
FRIGN: yea exactly, code should never be written shorter for the sake of squashing LOC
kori
the number of users could grow more and more, and the growth speed could also grow
Evil_Bob
clarity should be preferred
FRIGN
kori: you know, sometimes it's better if a "younger" project doesn't get too much attention
kori
that is true
FRIGN
In the end, the best software comes out from an elitist system
I don't believe in democracy.
kori
I see
FRIGN
In the end, democracy just yields crap
kori: Want an example?
kori
it's not reeeeeally about democracy here
FRIGN
Today, the German parliament passed this bloody Greek-money-package.
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