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kori
let me just put that out of the way
Evil_Bob
lol
kori
is it easier for them to use something like Ubuntu/Elementary, or OpenBSD?
atmc
ubuntu
graphical installer
dsockwell
it really depends on their personality
atmc
click click click reboot ready
dsockwell
ubuntu is going to patronize them
Evil_Bob
OpenBSD i think, but probably with a pre-setup graphical environment like xfce or w/e
kori
of course
but OpenBSD ships with fu*king fvwm and cwm
dsockwell
do they have a computer already
Evil_Bob
yeah so? most people dont install windows either
kori
dsockwell: probably a cellphone
dsockwell
who is this person?
to you
kori
a hypothetical 'common user'
dsockwell
oh
my mistake i thought you were asking for your dad or sth
kori
lmao no
atmc has the right idea
dsockwell
what i tell people who want to experiment is to keep using their desktop for its usual stuff
and install virtualbox to play with VMs
but that presumes they already have a PC
atmc
kori: ikr
dsockwell
people are a lot happier with experimenting when their PC keeps working while they do it
in my experience
kori
also, I'm just using OpenBSD as an example, dsockwell
we could compare simple system x and complex system y
if y is easier to get into than x, then people will use y
because the barrier of entry is lower
dsockwell
that's true
kori
systemd has a very low barrier of entry to use
atmc
ubuntu is even easier to install than windows
kori
it sucks
dsockwell
and I consider myself pretty competent without ever having used arch/gentoo/openbsd/freebsd on an everyday-use machine
kori
but alternatives like sinit/ignite/whatever the fu*k else aren't coherent or complete or easy to get into
dsockwell
except
kori
I use CRUX, for crying out loud
dsockwell
i would probably need some practice to not look foolish on BSD
and a book
kori
simple software isn't worth more than complex software if the barrier of entry is higher
the barrier of entry needs to be lower than the complex software
and then it'll explode
Evil_Bob
kori: thats why there will be a sta.li and morpheus base system, to develop a coherent base system
kori
Evil_Bob: I have my own project as well
Evil_Bob
like the OpenBSD model for the base system
kori
I'm keeping these things in mind
a lot of polish is needed in all areas, not just the base system
you gotta make sure the default graphical system (if applicable) is also nice
that the configurations are sane
and so on and so forth
Evil_Bob
yes, but we cant fix all software
kori
I'm probably the dumbest person you have ever met
Evil_Bob
the graphical system will not be in base
it is a system for developers anyway
kori
with my distribution I'm going to try and find a way to cater to both the minimalist hipster programmer and the end user
it's going to be very weird.
Evil_Bob
k, good luck :P
you will never please a hipster or an user
it is simple to please a lazy programmer (me)
kori
Evil_Bob: I'm mostly going to grab some of the work suckless has already done
assemble it, polish it
blah blah
and make my own solutions for whatever's missing
(while using sh*t like musl and (insert hipster library here))
some forking is going to be involved
if I'm lucky, not much
fun times
k0ga
I remember the day that my father, with 70 years, began to lear 'informatic'
learn windows was really hard for him
all the assumptions that windows/ubuntu are easier is because we waste a lot of our child/teenager age with systems similar to them
but if you don't know any system
I think both are equally complex
Evil_Bob
exactly
i started with MS-DOS, i think if i wasnt introduced to windows but the Linux command-line it would be a simpler transition
atmc
in math there is a pretty good quote for that
everything is hard, until it becomes easy
FRIGN
atmc: that's what she said
haha
kori
atmc: yeah but if you have the minimum of experience
atmc
s/easy/soft
;)
kori: yea sure, everything is equally hard
kori
a button that says "internet browser" is better than typing "firefox" in the command line
Evil_Bob
kori: but a user has to learn how to use the mouse too and know what to do (click on the icon)
if you only had to type browser<enter> it would be simpler
kori
Evil_Bob: but those things are intuitive
Evil_Bob
kori: i disagree
kori
I disagree with your disagreement
Evil_Bob
thats fine
kori
it's pretty much how life works
press buttons
get bacon
Evil_Bob
kori: people who start using a computer dont intuitively start using the mouse
kori
(this is why touch screens make so much success by the way)
Evil_Bob
touchscreens are more intuitive yes
kori
I used to be an elitist
but now I realize it's pretty much bullsh*t unless you're working exclusively with sh*t that requires you to be an elitist
and even then
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