logs archiveBotHelp.net / Freenode / #ada / 2015 / July / 17 / 8
charlie5
i might prefer go for "+" -> to string ... and "-" ->
to_unbounded_string
Visaoni
the other way seems far more natural to me
(+ -> to_unbounded, etc)
string basically provides a subset of the unbounded_string functionality
charlie5
for me, the natural String type is 'dominant' ... so promotion goes towards it
Visaoni
you do what you want. I'll just rename them to be proper :P
charlie5
hmm, well
you do have a point re the 'string basically provides a subset of the unbounded_string functionality'
i've been mainly looking at it from a DSA point of view
sparre
(Action) thinks charlie5 is slightly obsessed with the DSA. ;-)
Distributed Scripts in Ada?
charlie5
in that i prefer types in Pure packages when poss
Shark8
Natacha: XCOM Enemy Unknown is pretty fun.
Natacha
I played a lot to the 90s version, and only recently discovered the 2012 remake
(actually that was when stumbling upon the annoucement for its sequel)
Visaoni
it is rather different, but good. has it's flaws but... I put in a good number of hours there
once you get your feet under you, you can try looking at the Long War mod, if you feel up to it :)
charlie5
sparre: am i the only one on the planet who likes dsa ?!? ... :)
Shark8
charlie5: No. I think it's pretty cool. (At least insofar as ideas go.)
Visaoni
(Action) hasn't even thought of a need for the damned thing...
charlie5
(Action) turned a dsa app into a 'socketed' app once ... became unbearable
Shark8
Visaoni: Neither have I, but that doesn't stop me from imagining, say, a bittorrent DSA.
charlie5
Visaoni: how about, umm, anything that needs to talk over the net :)
Visaoni
charlie5: I've yet to need to write my own server that talks to my own client over the net :)
charlie5
have you ever tried an irc like app in ada with dsa ... trivial :)
mm, 2 of the major pulling pints of ada for me are tasking and dsa
Shark8
charlie5: I'm kinda working on a bit of a project for handling Ada projects: https://github.com/OneWingedShark/AdaProjectManager
charlie5
mm, and the rest
:)
Visaoni
I'll have to look more at the dsa, but from the bit of reading I've done it doesn't look like it's a super nice/easy thing (not that it's solving an easy problem)
Shark8
Visaoni: True; I think we could get a bit more 'pull'/interest in it if we had some decent interop... maybe something like Erlang on "the other side".
charlie5
Shark8: looks interesting ... will read properly tomorrow
Shark8
charlie5: Cool/thanks.
charlie5
(notice doine minor type - > congicuration )
Shark8
It is in the VERY early design stages though, so feedback [and help] would certainly be appriciated.
charlie5
(noticed one minor typo - > congicuration/configuration)
(Action) 's typing doesn't improve a lot after midnight
Shark8
Visaoni: charlie5: -- The idea behind my project manager is actually somewhat inspired by the DSA. (Annex E leaves DSA config, and toolchains, free to be implemented as needed.) So that you could have a project which could contain many discrete components (possibly connected via internet, or maybe some particular medium like IEEE1394) but specify which "main procedures" get assigned/targeted/compiled to what processors.
charlie5
Visaoni: dsa does takes some getting used to ... there are some restictions on what can be placed in a 'remote types' and 'pure' packages, boith importnat to dsa
Shark8
charlie5: fixed the typo.
Visaoni
Shark8: For Erlang specifically, I don't know. Seems like another language in the same kind of state as Ada. Not sure how much is to be gained by adding in that horse
Shark8
True; it was just the "distributed language" that popped to mind.
Visaoni
indeed... not sure I really have another language (or at least one that doesn't run on Erlang's VM) that fits that tag in my head
I think most things just use charlie's hated sockets
charlie5
(Action) figured with the prevalence of multi-core, ada tasking would come to the fore ... and with the prevalence of th inet, dsa would also come to the fore
Shark8
Visaoni: You know, if they had decent [up-to-date] documentation [specification, really] I would have tried to write an Erlange VM in Ada.
Natacha
I thought the DSA had serious issues with the lack of reliability of internet connections
Visaoni
Shark8: Yup, in some ways I think Erlang is probably in a worse state than Ada
is the DSA not on top of TCP?
charlie5
Natacha: yes, that's my worst worry with dsa
Shark8
charlie5: Apparently people don't like Ada's tasking because they like to munge about with low-level mechanisms and libraries compared to a high-level and designed solution.
^-- That should be read with a biting, cynical yet deadpan tone.
charlie5
Shark8: nothing like spending 1/2 your life debugging c concurrency, eh ;)
(Action) got the tone ;)
Natacha
according to wikipedia, erlang is much more widely used than I thought
Shark8
(Action) bites his tounge in an effort not to fill the channel w/ profanities.
Natacha
call of duty, whatsapp, chef, rabbitmq, github, ... almost make it sound more used than Ada
charlie5
Visaoni: yesm, i think it is on top of tcp
-m
Shark8
(Because if C's "concurrency model" doesn't make you want to excessively use profanities you need to calibrate your sanity levels.)
(re: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3di4ce/food_food/ct5e6k9 )
charlie5
(Action) doubts Visaoni is a maam :)
Visaoni
charlie5: ha, indeed :)
so what is the problem with unreliably net connections then?
charlie5
(Action) didn't know c *had* a concurrency model :) ... just some libs supporting it
dsa works great til your connection drops out
then i'm not sure how to repair it
Visaoni
Natacha: Yeah, it might be more widely used. Pretty sure it is outside of gov work. But in terms of having a real spec it seems to fall down a bit. At least Ada /could/ have another implementation with some work that doesn't involve reversing GNAT
Natacha
so it's like python
Visaoni
charlie5: it just... dies if your connection drops for too long? without a way to fix it? that's... who thought that was a good idea? :)
charlie5
the dsa config files have a bunch of settable params (many of which i'm not familiar with) ... perhaps those can help cope with disconnects
but, to get a definitive response, we would have to ask dbotton, out local dsa guru
out -> our
Visaoni
Eh, Python does have other implementations... some of which are admittedly /not/ following the spec for performance reasons
because why would you ever want to be able to execute more than one line of code at a time, even if you were running multiple threads? :)
charlie5
Visaoni: no, it does give an exception afeter a timeout
Shark8
charlie5: That's why the term is in quotes.
Visaoni
so, what's the problem then? at that point it's like any other net-based problem that can't connect right?
*program
Shark8
charlie5: So then, could we write an exception-handler to [attempt to] reconnect?
charlie5
Visaoni: would be much simpler if they just fixed the internet so that were were no timeouts/droputs ! .. :D
s/were/there/
Visaoni
you should fix your program! you've got gigabytes there. do you know how long you can make that timeout? you'll never hit it!
there. no more timeouts :D
charlie5
Shark8: yes, but you'd have to do it every communication attmept ? ... unless it went thru some sort of manager
Shark8
Why every comm attempt? Wouldn't you just 'activate' it when you get the timeout exception? Then, after X tries, reraise the exception?
charlie5
(Action) defers all sensible replies to dbotton, our (often quiet) dsa expert
Visaoni
although, even if you did reconnect, might there not be sync issues?
charlie5
mm, glug
it's not an issue i've dealt with directly
let me think
zzzz
zz
z
well, it is 2:22 am :)
gosh, i wish yoogz was still here .. he used to work on PO
hok, i guess these are all solid issues, they have come up several time here ... would they be probs with ada's spec of dsa or with the implementaion ?
nerdboy
moin
charlie5
(Action) 's use of dsa is mostly game related, so bit that 'critical' if a prob occurs ... curious how 'serious' apps handle it
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